“And so it begins.”
“What, exactly?”
“Well the thing that makes everything up and down and all around, or course.”
“And so it seems. Likewise, I found such a thing that turns it all around in a turning of up and down.”
“The definition?”
“Yes.”
“Aha, a quandary to the average mind, and yet here I am stumbling.”
“And the mind stumbles upon such matters, and matters stumble upon changing minds.”
“Quite!”
“Quite.”
If you think about it,
I am no different from you
Not better, not worse.
No matter the class, style or character,
we are individuals just trying to do the same thing as everyone else.
Survive.
Grow.
Indulge.
Yes, we are indulging in life, this so precious life.
We are all flesh, human, with the motives, but with different motivations.
We are no different, yet so incredibly different.
When we strip down to our very core, we are made up of beautiful things.
Things like compassion, love. Things like the drive for justice, the longing for peace.
We all long for something, as life is meant to behold things of such.
If you think about it,
Our society has birthed a tragedy bearing disunity, hatred, false senses of justice.
It has brought uneasiness, anxiety, fear, and the power of wasting potential.
Potential.
That’s an interesting term.
It’s the what could be if the inner you would just leap forward and forget fears.
It’s what each and every one of us possess.
Something that we are born with, yes, all of us.
So don’t waste, but rather find and use it for not you, but someone else.
Sing for your friends.
Play for your mother.
Work for your lover.
Write for a purpose.
Search for an unknown.
Love for a life worth living.
Love because that’s what this life is all about.
Love, that being loving not the person one has become
but for who they were to begin with.
Love because you love to love, and they have a love you love to love.
Love because you can’t help it.
Love for the reasons you thought about.
Because, If you think about it,
what is love without loving what you don’t always love.
Loving is loving the not-great things.
Loving is loving the imperfections.
Loving is giving yourself up for the protection of another.
Loving is knowing that no matter what the other does, your love will never cease.
But, I’m just here thinking out loud.
What do you think?
I’ve never felt so burdened
So utterly crushed
Not a rock or a tree, but an idea
As strange as that may sound,
an idea seems to be the death of me
Something so powerful,
that not even the hottest fire can destroy it
or the coldest ice to freeze it
No military can drop a bomb so big that will erase it
An idea is not physical, but is a thought
A philosophy or way of life in our heads
And even though those who defend it may fall,
the idea lingers in the air through droughts
A person can always be destroyed, but what they believe in
That’s a different story
Because the very thought can bring down governments
destroy or build communities
United the people under a common voice
and remain throughout the depths of time
An idea is really a double edged sword
an indestructible one
When that moment occurs, it isn’t a legendary experience where melodious symphonies backdrop the event. The ending isn’t foreseen, the foreshadow is a blur, and the protagonist and antagonist are a variable. When that moment happened in my life, I saw the hollywood films as a deception, a cliché story. They see life as a beauteous journey, where the dragon is slain and the princess is saved.
Well John Williams, Steven Spielberg, I ask you to write a screenplay, a film score, for a man with confused beliefs, and brimful uncertainty. Two guys talking in a hotel lobby, the other man, whose beliefs are solid as gold, and a life so distraught and bitter that he could make a rainbow depressed.
Sitting in a hotel lobby, a 6’5 Austrian acquaintance of mine decided that he had a bone to pick. No intention of harming me, but rather looking for a challenge. It all rushes back: the way he looked at me when I was talking, the feeling of having an opinion that wasn’t supported, someone who was intentionally against me.
The topic, metaphorically, is a matter of life or death. The lurch feeling of annoyance, fear, and hope of well-placed concision when asked, “What is the meaning of life?”
No conversation starts like that, but rabbit trails tangled, twisted, rippled and crippled to that stinging question.
I don’t know the answer. Hard to believe coming from a “wise person” like me, right? I do have my beliefs though. That life is not defined by acts, promotions, and knowledge. That we can only, truly be alive when we figure that relationships, friendships, and personal beliefs are what makes us alive. If I don’t have something to die for, what IS the point of living. The two of us were at odds.
I, a christian-existentialist, talking to a nihilist, rides the river of inevitable arguments. Why can’t he see that there is more to life than rejection, and intellect. Don’t you believe in something? anything? Please just don’t throw life away! I just wanted to scream at him, my fist clenching with every retaliation he gave. My mind was going insane. There were actually people in this world who found no meaning in life, unfathomable. Can’t you see that you are dead within your life, this gift you have taken for granted. We are more than walking clumps of bone and flesh, and we are on such a beautiful earth for reason. Isn’t laughter a glowing piece of evidence of meaning, of true life?
My words went right through him. He was confident, but dead inside, telling me living was pointless aside from furthering society. Leaving a mark on human history, being remembered. After death there is nothing, what you do here on earth is pointless. I had never felt so threatened, so depressed inside as I started to feel so pointless. He was getting to me,
eating away at my pure mind of rainbows and butterflies. For once, I felt vulnerable, defenseless, and straight up dark.
That didn’t stop me. No. I was gonna hold steadfast to my belief. I am worthy, precious to people, a friend, brother, and a son. I knew that life was not dead, that it was beautiful. Life is a journey that is more than achievements, and having the status of being a wise know-it-all. Life is about living, and having a faith in something, a belief that makes me who I am. I don’t define myself by my school, politics, grades, or anything of society’s nature. I am what I believe, and I define myself by my faith, relationships, and pure essence of happiness in my life.
This Conversation is comprised of what seems to be of the following philosophical/religious beliefs: Existentialism, Christianity, Nihilism, Gnosticism, and some other bits and snippets of philosophies.
The following is not to persuade or put down any other believers, but is strictly for educational purposes of having a general knowledge of certain philosophies and ideas. Not all of these are exactly correct by definition of philosophies, as there is many personal philosophies in here as well. Hurtful comments are not cool, and I ask that we talk about this like the civilized humans we are (or at least should be). If you are to comment, please be respectful and insightful of others, and don’t just bash other beliefs for the sake of being right. Educated responses are critical for social harmony.
A: I would like a somewhat idea of what philosophy means and the definition of it is to you. It’s a tricky beast, and it holds so many perspectives. Enjoy
B: I see philosophy as essentially both the search for the Good Life and its enactment. It is an investigation of reality, which, being human ourselves, for us centres on the human reality (though, if man is indeed the measure of all things, extends to lesser extent to the universe in general). That is for me one of the main things which differentiates it from science, which, being in thrall to a materialistic, numerical,. ‘objective’ understanding of reality only examines its outer shell, and usually falls flat when it tries to delineate its essential felt aspects. Science is a thoroughly alienating, dogmatic pursuit fanatically devoted to enquiry into ‘objective’, material cause and effect, based mainly upon incremental progress over generations of specialists, which is unable to give a proper account of itself, whereas philosophy examines what it means to be an individual, living, breathing human being, is based upon what one individual can glean with his own intellect and five senses, is itself the ideal form of life, and because its very subject matter is not just the ‘what’, but rather the ‘why’ of existence, it seeks to give a full account of itself before the tribunal of Reason, which if it is to be fully active must justify not just factual beliefs but also and especially moral choices. It is also its enactment because almost undeniably an essential part of acting righteously is knowledge of reality which is not immediately present but must be sought with all one’s heart throughout one’s life.
A: I love what you said at the end there, with the ,”is not just he ‘what’, but rather the ‘why’ of existence. That’s a great way of putting it. This was well written, and I do say that is a great definition of it. I often think of philosophy in that it we are all devoted to wisdom, as the root of the word philosophy is love of wisdom. But it’s not just knowledge we want, but it’s a continuous battle with other opinions, and the inner belief and soul of ourselves. My favorite philosopher has to be the Father of Existentialism, Søren Kierkegaard, as he talks about how we are to pave our own meaning through life, and not rely on the essence. In that, we are individuals with our own stories and truths to pave our very meaning, and essence is merely a characteristic of peoples and types. Sure we have a general essence to us individually, but I pray not that we fall into just a category, but that each and every one of us creates our own meaning. Now for me personally, I identify with Christianity, as that’s what defines me, but I am so open to other philosophical beliefs and opinions. It is all so fascinating and I do love to talk about such marvelous things of the earth and purpose.
B: You make excellent points. ‘its not just knowledge we want, but it’s a continuous battle with other opinions, and the inner belief and soul of ourselves.’ I think this expounds very well on the concept of philosophy as a way of life. ‘Truth’ is not a matter of indifference to it, that we mechanically seek for no given reason, as it is in science classes. It is a crucial part of our identity whose purpose is constantly being questioned by our innermost needs. It is a basic expression of the life function, the desire to augment the strength of our mind, our power in society, and the universe in general. ‘we are individuals with our own stories and truths to pave our very meaning’ – beautifully put. This draws our attention to the fact that knowledge of certain things, of everything, cannot be isolated from the rest of our experience and swallowed by just any digestion, but is part of a wider fabric necessary for the preservation and advancement of life. It reminds us that we should always stand in awe in front of each human soul as a painstakingly compiled mosaic and guidebook on how to live, and in a world where facts are often force-fed to us and handed down as from on high, rather than to submissively gulp them down to be ever mindful not only of their inherent likelihood but also, equally, of the effect they have upon the formation of our own soul, of the passions they are likely to elicit and the sense of purpose they are able to sustain. I am personally very interested in esoteric forms of Christianity, such as Gnosticism, since I relate to its anti-worldly aspects. However, I must confess that my favourite philosopher is Friedrich Nietzsche, The Anti-Christ!, since he extolls both a healthy vitality and also the inner spiritual life of man and ruthlessly assails the moral absolutism and herd mentalities that stand in the way of such great gifts. Gnosticism also contains a kind of superman ideal, and has a tendency to invert traditional moral norms. But, it seems a bit less worldly and worshipping of brute strength, which was perhaps a bit too pronounced in Nietzsche for some tastes. It also incorporates many Eastern meditative practices that he didn’t much mention, of which I am also very enamored.
A: Aha! I should’ve guessed you were a Nietzsche fan! That’s great though, I’ve met a couple in my life and it’s always fun talking to them. I am vaguely familiar with the idea of Gnosticism, I think it’s belief that God is a lesser divinity and that Christ is more of an emissary in which he sort of enabled redemption, or something along those lines. I’m gonna have to do a bit more studying!!! But I do get that it does seem less worldly to worship a more so meek God in which he is not this all powerful supergiant titan. I personally prefer to worship a God that is the highest power, in which that is what Christianity stands, but I have never really though of why I do. I suppose I can’t really pick and choose the God I want, otherwise I would have no faith, in that it would just be insightful but wishful thinking. I’ll make sure to read up on Nietzsche, as I haven’t had the time as I’ve been reading Works of Love by Kierkegaard and some books by G.K Chesterton, but I’ll make sure to make my way down that ally. It’s a large world of philosophy and I feel like I’m just sipping the brim of the philosophical cup of coffee..if that makes any sense. But there is soo much we don’t know, but it is so great to dig deeper and deeper into other’s thoughts!
B: That’s right, Gnostics believe that the ‘God’ of the old testament is really a evil and ignorant demi-urge. They don’t worship ‘Him’, though. They identify Jesus as the serpent in the Garden Of Eden who leads the rebellion against him, which obviously they think was a noble and heroic thing. The highest and real God for them is an alien power from which everything else is descended but Fallen, but which each of us can contact directly through deep personal inner meditation, which means a complete over-haul of the personality, Christification, or ‘self-overcoming’ as Nietzsche termed it. Personally, I tend to believe that religion should serve the best interests of humanity in this life; such a religion is both more useful (by definition), and in my opinion, somewhat more likely to be true. When I say Gnosticism is anti-worldly, I therefore obviously don’t mean that it isn’t useful in this life; what I mean is that it takes a negative attitude to the powers-that-be. In a way, I think you can pick the God you believe in – afterall, wouldn’t the most perfect Being also be the most preferable? Which of Kierkegaard’s works is your favourite, and what would you recommend? Of Nietzsche’s, I think “The Will To Power” is the best summation, although its actually only a collection of unfinished writings (of what was planned as his most major work) compiled by his sister. Alternatively, I suggest “Thus Spoke Zarathustra”, but only if you read the contemporary scholar, Laurence Lampert’s elucidation along with it.
C: I do like me some G.K! DIdn’t realize the talking already began! To answer the question above, I would define Philosophy, in my own words, it is the investigation of the nature of things. Really, a lot of my interests of it are in human nature and why we are here, what is our purpose, and why do we do the thing we do. As I find it so fascinating reading about man’s state of nature, in that we are said, by Philosopher John Locke that it is when we (man) are without government, laws, restrictions and structure, in that we are pretty much savages. Very interesting, and might I add I am a huge fan of John Locke, as the U.S is modeled after his belief. I don’t know if I would say that philosophy is the search for good life though, as you said B on your post up top. Maybe by definition that what it is, but from what I see from past philosophers, it is more so the desire to have answers may they be good or bad. After all, Nietzsche is kinda the king of finding bad answers, as he summed up life in that we need to jump into the Übermensch (being destroying all idea of God) and have our own morals. Though morals are good, I feel like if we destroy God, or atlas the idea of God, the world could quickly fall apart, and many would lose good virtue and lively understanding. I myself am an agnostic, as I don’t know if God really exists or not..Maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t, I don’t know. But, there is a part of me that wants there to be a God for the sake of having some hope of a life after, rather than just nothing for eternity. It’s hard to imagine either one. I would love to hear your thoughts on religion and what it does for the world as a whole, does it help it? deteriorate it? Is it good for man kind to have that ‘wishful thinking’ as A sorta mentioned, or would it be better if everyone just jumped in the Übermensch?
B: When I say the ‘Good Life’, I don’t necessarily assume that there is common good for everyone. Since we exist by nature as individuals, with our own private sensations, it may well be that the Good for one is not the Good for someone else. However, since man is by nature a social animal, philosophy includes the attempt to reconcile these separate individual Goods. I don’t believe Nietzsche actually necessarily believed in eradicating all idea of God, or rather, of ‘the gods’; rather, he believed that Western Civilization would have to create new gods, preferably some people would become as gods themselves, in order to cope with the decline in Christianity. Its true though, he had a radically different conception of what such gods would be like than the traditional beneficent dictator in the sky. As you probably already know, he believed that that ‘God’ was anti-life, whereas the new gods should exalt life. I agree with him on that point, that the old ideals were partly too soft, destructive of higher types and led mankind towards decline. However, I also share your view that some belief in a divinity is helpful to the ordering of society. I believe that the Gnostic religion, or certain strands of Buddhism are close to the ‘religion of the future’ that Nietzsche was searching for. Such religions maintain a moral world view, based in karma, but at the same time encourage the development of individual excellence and sexuality that Christianity came to suppress. However, there are other thinkers who interest me, such as Leo Strauss, who was deeply influenced by Nietzsche, who maintain the view that religion is necessary to keep the masses as good as possible, while an elite group of atheistic Ubermensch secretly run everything. This sounds to me fine if you are one of them, but not so good if you are amongst the manipulated masses. However, it may be one of the most realistic options – and better than what Nietzsche called ‘the autonomous herd’ and ‘the last man’, a scenario in which everyone is equally deluded and thus ultimately unsatisfied.
C: But on the other hand, religion has also caused a lot of wars and unnecessary bloodshed all for the sake of having the religious upper hand. Religion has (on the bright side) also given people in the world something to work for, a drive to prosper and do well. As the United States was founded upon because of religion along with many other countries we now know today. So without religion what would drive man to prosper in the world??
A: Well that’s not terribly hard, as I will go along with the ideas of existentialism. Those Ideas are that there is no God, and the is no fixed meaning to life. We (as individuals) have to break free of social essence, and create our own meaning as an individual. I do believe this is going to be seen more and more as time goes on. I mean, think about it, yes there is religion that drives people to live out their lives in the identity of that certain religion, but there are so many people in the world who don’t want to ‘be like very one else’ and this is where the term ‘Destiny’ can come into the equation. Do I think everyone has their own destiny or certain meaning of life? Yes, to and extant. For me, I have Christian beliefs, and I identify myself with Christianity, BUT I also want to create my own way of life. I don’t want be some human that has no unique, beneficial or significant role in the world we live in. Though that sounds a bit immature, it is true today in society, that many don’t see a purpose to their lives. Some may think their purpose is to be a Einstein scientist, or the new Pascal, or Beethoven, or whatever. Of course not everyone can do this, but the drive is still there to want to become like so. Actually, this is literally the definition of the American Dream seen in the wealthy US today. People just want to be the best of the best….my problem is that I don’t believe life is about becoming the best of the best, I believe that life’s significance is seen from a more spiritual side, in that in my own opinion, I think that life is not measured by how many Ferraris or Mansions you have, and how famous you are, buy rather by the amount of people you have impacted and the relationships and friendships you have made in your life. This to me is true happiness, and I believe that once you find people like such and continue finding such people, life will not scream for a destiny and significance, because you have already found yours. In the end, no one ever dies wishing they could’ve bought more houses or worked in the business longer, they wish to have relationships, and loves, and passions. So for me, my view on life is to have God, have friends, family, passions/wisdom, and a lover. That is the epitome in life in a sentence.
This comes to the end of this conversation so far, more will come in the future. If you want to join in on the conversation feel free to comment, or find all of us on allpoetry.com, a place where you can write poetry and talk philosophy by joining our group: http://allpoetry.com/group/show/33164-Zeno%27s_Poets_and_Philosophers
Thank you for reading this interesting conversation, again this is just for entertainment and educational purposes in which we do not seek to tear each other down, but instead learn from each other’s opinions. Thank you.
-Kite
Zeno Kite 